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#1 2005-09-14 20:44:06

nim
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From: Visby, Sweden
Registered: 2005-09-13
Posts: 50
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overlap doubling, tentative technique and name

Hello! great atlast a central and working forum :¨) hope everyone will share their precence between here and their irc-caves from now on! warm praise the founders!

I'd like to talk about an effect that mainly uses doubling of onison notes and does not rely on phasing even though it produces a far more elaborate synthesis using ideally 3 channels and similar squarebased waves.

BORING EXPLAINATION
using doubling effects on triangles may be more a challange and more difficult the less symetrical the triangle.
using on sinus is the least effective use to my experience. but it should be said that every wave always favors it's own approach of use and overlap doubling with sinusapproach may likely be possible and successful.
the reason why it's most natural with squares is probably that doubling anything without ramping creates a rampless incline or decline in the.. waveform (sorry suck at terms) which is the characteristic of squares.

the concept is to play a sustaining note (ideally constant volume) and interfere it with another, so they overlap (their waveform cycle should not be in synch (like when triggered simultaneously)).

it needs three channels ideally. two is fine when there's alot of other sound to hide in and four may give extra color or complexity.

MY POINT
the core effect of overlap doubling is the overlapping.. so you want as much of it and as often as you can get.
so.. usually when not having a crazy speed I use delay.

so since it's the same note everytime and constant volume I'll just display note and delay (SDX (X=ticks.. as many as speed(including 0 delay)) in speed 4 (gives me delay 0-3).

note . ..  | note sd1 | note sd3
note sd2 | note sd1 | note . ..
....... ...  | note sd2 | note sd3
note sd1 | note sd3 | ...... . ..
note sd2 | note sd1 | note . ..

and so on.

note displacement is random but ideally never two at the same tick (offset).
all notes are in basic example same pitch.

what this results in isn't a plain sound of a threedoubled sustaining notes. even though there are no cuts in between every redundant note. I mean, maybe you'd think retriggering the note wouldn't make it different from just sustaining it if the retriggered note is the exact same.
the main reason for this is the dutycycle is reset every time you retrigger or play a note since the tempo of the song and the dutycycle probably is not synched up at every row (low chance).
if a tracker could use a random loop-point looping mode this would be really quick :¨)

so what you get here is like a sparkle of retriggers and overlaps.

try it out! check out demonstration I posted on chipforum.net some time ago.

you can hear here that I've added phasing by detune and at the end by vibrato as well. this is not at all essencial to pure overlap doubling but can be added to change the sound just like on simple notes.

IMPORTANT SOME MORE STUFF
another additional method for this technique that comes before adding techniques like phasing or echo/reverb is randomly alternating the sample between closely related squares (or waves if you venture outside of squarebased).

and if you want to alternate the arrangement you can instead of three sparkling channels use one fundamental channel of a sustaining note and then do the retriggering in one or maybe best two other chans.. easier to keep consistent volume this way.

and about the waves you use. by squarebased I mean every wave featuring lowrez stairstep-like rise and fall in wave.. can be a sinelike motion adequetely lowrez.

also even more cool, use squares with overtones (do this by drawing more than one cycle of the same wave and slightly add offset to each cycle.. you'll need more than two.. the more offset, the more coarse the wave.. like 80'ies rave grungy-synths.) __----___----__---____---__ <-like this

and finally use some bloody phasing and even reverb/echo if you dispense extra channels as shamelessly as I do. :¨)

(but maybe you get most chicks by using this on say. gameboy, in lsdj, make third squarewave (with slight overtones?) in pcm-chan)

I hope I only wrote twice as much as I needed. hope it inspires someone and I've not failed to notice everyone already knows this technique and purple motion already gave it a name based on 5 years of academic sound engineering term knowledge. ;¨)

Last edited by nim (2006-02-13 13:20:59)

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#2 2005-09-16 00:32:41

nim
Member
From: Visby, Sweden
Registered: 2005-09-13
Posts: 50
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Re: overlap doubling, tentative technique and name

heh, i sound like i'm making a strict bombdismantlingmanual for kids :"P

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#3 2005-09-16 14:12:36

starpause
acid filter cutoff jam
From: minneapolis
Registered: 2005-09-13
Posts: 69
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Re: overlap doubling, tentative technique and name

i think i need to read it another time or two, tho after listening to the sample i realize this is something i can't do in only two channels of lsdj ... one channel to mask the other two clicking around ... aah! even after that i'm still not entirely pleased, but this is a subtle effect (less is more? hehe) maybe you could upload a .sav lsdj example? errr, i'm so demanding lol

anyway, it does enspire me to get back at doing some phasing synth set ups using PU1 and PU2 ... most the time doing variable-duty tables sounds very clicky. thinking over this tute and phasing in general, i realized i could give the second pulse a gentle volume envelope and only change the W00/duty cycle when it was silent. sure, this requires two instruments and writing 2 different chains ... but tables take a lot of the bitch work out of synthesis programming, especially with automation!

also, there was a thread about sweeping a pulse in LSDj ... i know that it isn't the same thing as your overlapping ... but it's another interesting phase effect. the thread resulted in the following tutorial ...

Code:

----- Original Message -----
From: Johan Kotlinski
To: lsdj@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2004 6:34 AM
Subject: Re: [LSDj!] duty cycle sweep


Rats... That wasn't supposed to go away yet... I'll try again:

=================================

It definitely sounds great... AND is perfectly possible to do in LSDJ as
well... :)

The problem with doing phasing like this on the Gameboy, is that the waveform
length is only 32 nibbles long, giving you theoretically only 16 possible phase
settings. So if you want a long smooth sweep, you have to mess it up somehow to
make the steps less audible.

One way to work around this, is constantly jump back and forth between
neighboring wave frames to get the idea that the wave is always evolving... but
practically advance to the next wave frame only once every eighth tick or so...

Example:

TABLE 00 ; step forward table

0 F01 ;+1
1 FFF ;-1
2 F01 ;+1
3 FFF ;-1
4 F02 ;+2
5 FFE ;-2
6 F02 ;+2
7 FFF ;-1
8 HC0 ;jump to position 0, loop 12 times
9 F01 ;+1 ;delay 6 ticks
A FFF ;-1
B F01 ;+1
C FFF ;-1
D F01 ;+1
E FFF ;-1
F A01 ;jump to table 1

TABLE 01 ; step backward table

0 F01 ;+1
1 FFF ;-1
2 F01 ;+1
3 FFF ;-1
4 F02 ;+2
5 FFE ;-2
6 F01 ;+1
7 FFE ;-2
8 HC0 ;jump to position 0, loop 12 times
9 A00 ; jump to table 0

This should be used with a wave instrument that has "PLAY" set to "OFF"...

Example settings for the softsynth could be:

WAVE: SQR
START VOL: 30
START CUTOFF: FF
START PHASE: 00
END VOL: 30
END CUTOFF: FF
END PHASE: 1E

Johan

k9d/nD
m3d, lobit labia
cockroaches, fm broadcast

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#4 2005-09-17 10:45:52

dereigner
Member
Registered: 2005-09-15
Posts: 28
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Re: overlap doubling, tentative technique and name

Thanks for this thread.:p


uh la la,i got my keys back.

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#5 2005-09-21 23:07:43

nim
Member
From: Visby, Sweden
Registered: 2005-09-13
Posts: 50
PM

Re: overlap doubling, tentative technique and name

hey cool, in Tsu Ryu's T_HiryuNoKen_OutworldTheme.mdx he uses an effect similar to or of the same principal as the one I talked about. but only seemingly one-layered or w.e. to call it.

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#6 2005-10-23 06:28:36

nim
Member
From: Visby, Sweden
Registered: 2005-09-13
Posts: 50
PM

Re: overlap doubling, tentative technique and name

oh mistook your post for mine when i scrolled to the end last time, I think I tried the overlapping effect in lsdj when I found it will post a sav to go with the tute when I get time. It's one of my favorite effects so if you come up with something cool that's similar do post it!
I just have to try it with all chans! 1st and 2nd duty on pulses, pulses with overtones in pcm and metallic noise in noise chan! :")

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#7 2005-10-29 09:59:54

nula
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Registered: 2005-10-22
Posts: 11
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Re: overlap doubling, tentative technique and name

sounds nice : )

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